讨论:龙剑笙

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Unfortunate edit about no "legendary"

Hi, Bgwhite,

FYI

John Wayne as well as Bruce Lee Legacy, acting style and influences are in full display in respective articles.

Please take into consideration the 45 years of Yam Kim-fai and 55 years of Loong Kin Sang already on stage, some more years to come should Loong Kin Sang, the contemporary tier one top-ranked box-office guarantee, choose to.

Yam Kim-fai has been a Legend in Cantonese Opera world for close to a century and opened doors for, at least five generations and counting, actresses now to be male leads on stage. Actresses are still dominating even 25 years after her passing.

Cantonese Opera Film Century Award, 14th Hong Kong Film Awards was an honor awarded to Yam Kim-fai and accepted by Loong Kin Sang on her behalf in 1995.

Google (HK) commemorated the 103th anniversary of Yam Kim-fai's birthday on February 04, 2016 Google Doodle 103rd-birthday Yam Kim-fai Google Doodle shows off 1960's LGBT icon: Cantonese opera legend Yam Kim-fai SCMP updated 04 February, 2016.

Loong Kin Sang is the single successor to her mentor's acting style, a "secret" recipe to success that has never been disclosed beyond the one single room in Yam's former home. Her move since turning 70 in 2014 is more than the world of Cantonese Opera could ever hoped for. Those are historically significant performances you removed in such edit.

Theyear by year tour information I can find in the article of Madonna who was born only in 1958, just two years before Loong Kin Sang first on stage. For a 55-year veteran performer on stage, Loong Kin Sang has only very few of the huge list of awards and achievements listed. Such awards/achievements were listed with references as per Wikipedia requests.

While a pop-singer is receipted world wide and Cantonese opera is mostly a Chinese Art form. I trust the historically significant events listed there are never less important or essential.

"Please help to establish notability by citing..."

[references please]

Revision History of this page Loong Kin Sang

Loong Kin Sang was called a Legend by the Press in 1990 already when she received the award as well as opening door for Cantonese opera tour to Caesars Palace of Las Vegas in 1982. Your edit removed such historically significant information as well, unfortunately.207.102.255.36 (talk) 18:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

207.102.255.36, your English isn't the greatest and there are some severe writing problems with the article. I can't write in another language, so you are better than I will ever be. The page that covers the following is WP:WEASEL. Here are some phrases I removed:

is a famous Cantonese opera performer, known as the legendary Yam Kim Fai's protégée & successor

in particular the vocal style Yam Hong (任腔) and natural but with grace and depth acting style.

She quickly became Yam Kim Fai's disciple, and was treasured by Yam very much

and gained a lot of popularity by acting in various types of Cantonese opera.

Only one of these phrases had a reference which was #1. That reference is to a TV schedule and never mention Loong. In both John Wayne and Bruce Lee, only once was "legend" mentioned in each article and both were referenced. In order for the phrases to be included, there must be a reliable reference that mentions Loong was a "legend". I removed the awards sections as there references were to a blog. A more reliable reference is needed. You have much admiration for Loong which is clouding your judgement. Articles are to be neutral, so write in a neutral tone. Take a look at some other Chinese opera performers to get an idea of how an article should be. Performers such as Zhou Xinfang, Ouyang Yuqian or Kwan Hoi-san. I am familiar with Peking opera and have seen several performances. As I don't speak Chinese, what stood out were the costumes and masks. Too bad Chinese opera and Western opera are in a state of decline for the same reasons. Bgwhite (talk) 22:09, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Bgwhite,

1. Please clarify what request you were referring to in your comment below.

"You know you have been on Wikipedia too long when you start recognizing names... I've come across the ..., plus I understood Chinese opera in a request today. I need to get a life."

2. Your reply below refers.

"I removed the awards sections as there references were to a blog. "

Please explain which blog. the only link is to the official award authority

That is - 任艺笙辉念浓情 IFPI HKG 2015 List of Best Sales Releases, Classical and Operatic Works Recording (Order in Chinese Stroke Counts).

"A more reliable reference is needed." Please suggest one more reliable than the one organization actually gave Loong the award.

3. In order for the phrases to be included, there must be a reliable reference that mentions Loong was a "legend".

According to your quote above, you removed

is a famous Cantonese opera performer, known as the legendary Yam Kim Fai's protégée & successor

The current version actually reads

is a Cantonese opera performer, known as Yam Kim Fai's protégée and successor.

My understanding is you removed actually:

• famous, which was an adjective describing Loong, the subject of said article

• the legendary, which was an adjective describing Yam Kim Fai

I have covered Yam Kim Fai already. For Loong as 'famous', please refer to the two reports from local press.

http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/entertainment/20151227/bkn-20151227144840017-1227_00862_001.html - Original Ref 13 阿刨率新人演《紫钗记》　剧迷赞不老传说 【on.cc东网专讯】 Looking perfect as lovers on stage opposite new young talents.207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/entertainment/20160101/bkn-20160101152050007-0101_00862_001.html - Original Ref 14 《紫钗记》全剧　阿刨演绎师父任剑辉派功夫，俨如师父上身般 【on.cc东网专讯】 As if the Legendary Cantonese opera master back alive on stage.207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Both started with 粤剧名伶龙剑笙（阿刨）.

My translation is 粤剧Cantonese opera 名famous 伶performer 龙Lung 剑Kim 笙Sang (阿Ah 刨Pau).

Bing the 粤剧名伶龙剑笙（阿刨) to see how popular that phase is and you will get a few more. [1] gives all those pages online with such wording.

4. Look at the TV Schedule referred. You will see at 18:20 舞台下的龙剑笙 - the name of programme in Chinese.

龙剑笙 is the Chinese name of Loong Kim Sang of Wikipedia.

5. With all due respect, Kwan Hoi-san was a respected member of Cantonese Opera community by seniority as in age not fame. He worked for the legendary Yam Kim Fai in 1940s when Yam's troupe was in Macau, then a colony of Portugal.

Kwan was NOT famous until in 1975 TV production "The Legend of the Book and the Sword" (1976) which is also the first line of his Filmography.

6. So much more to explain to you while life is short. What you removed was the work of many editors over a few years in under various environment. That is very unfortunate if you did not understand Cantonese Opera. Difference between Cantonese opera and Chinese opera is way beyond my ability to start explaining to you as well.207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:58, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

207.102.255.36 I can't answer all your questions right now as I'm already late for bed tonight. I'm not doubting what you are saying about Loong. There needs to be very good references in order to put it into Wikipedia.

1. "You know you have been on Wikipedia too long when you start recognizing names... I've come across the ..., plus I understood Chinese opera in a request today. I need to get a life." I was referring that I knew of two relatively obscure topics... A noble family located in Galicaia during the 1500-1600's and Chinese opera. Chinese opera isn't well known in the west.

For myself, the word "Request" means a LOT more than this non-answer above. Your silence speaks volume.207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

1. Please explain which blog. the only link is to the official award authority You used https://phyllissabrinafan.blogspot.ca as a reference. This website is from a personal blog (zh:网志). This is not a reliable site because the person can write anything they want.

Before you came along the list of References

1. Maybe The Cantonese Opera Diva January 01, 2016 Australia

2. 舞台下的龙剑笙 November 14, 2015 Hong Kong

3. "Princess Chang Ping". The Illuminated Lantern. Retrieved 26 December 2010.

4. Tragedy of the Poet King(1968) Sin Fung Ming Production 01/30/1968

5. Laugh in the Sleeve (1975) Hing Fut Film Company Production 02/08/1975

6. Princess Chang Ping (1976) Golden Harvest Productions and Golden Phoenix 01/30/1976

7. The Legend of the Purple Hairpin (1977) Golden Phoenix Films Production 02/12/1977

8. Women Pioneer in Hong Kong, population Seven million, the Debut guest 七百万人的先锋 April 07, 2012 Hong Kong

9. HKAPA Curtain call December 23, 2015 Crew of new young talents

10. HKAPA Curtain call December 24, 2015 Crew of new young talents

11. HKAPA Curtain call December 29, 2015 Art Director Yam Bing-Yee

12. HKAPA Curtain call December 30, 2015 Art Director Yam Bing-Yee

13. 阿刨率新人演《紫钗记》　剧迷赞不老传说 【on.cc东网专讯】 Looking perfect as lovers on stage opposite new young talents.

14. 《紫钗记》全剧　阿刨演绎师父任剑辉派功夫，俨如师父上身般 【on.cc东网专讯】 As if the Legendary Cantonese opera master back alive on stage.

15. 任艺笙辉念浓情 IFPI HKG 2015 List of Best Sales Releases, Classical and Operatic Works Recording (Order in Chinese Stroke Counts)

Your rude unfortunate edit removed the link to two pieces of local press report as well as the IFPI HKG 2015 page of award winners while the HKAPA Curtain call links were as per the request already covered above.207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

For other statements, you had no reference for.

I good example of references would be too look at Loong's Chinese Wikipedia article, zh:龙剑笙. It looks to have alot of references.

You said you do not speak Chinese but not whether if you read Chinese. According to your said comment above regarding the TV Schedule (at 18:20) led to my taking it for granted you do not read Chinese at all.

However, I trust you can still read the edit history of zh:龙剑笙. So, please look where you go regarding this topic of Cantonese opera and more specifically this actress.207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

I'll add more tomorrow. Bgwhite (talk) 09:11, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Bgwhite,

I am sure you have a life to live and now understand you took too much of my time to finish the zh:龙剑笙 for reasons or circumstances beyond what you has answered so far.

Articles you so far suggested are either

1. with all due respect a washed-up, mean but true description, performer

2. not related to Cantonese opera

3. my work for the last three weeks on this particular subject but only 60% complete at best

Loong made four movies in her life so far. They all have over $1m box-office on record out-there. Her 1976 movie was definitely on the top ten list and box-office was over $3m.

Totally FOUR opera movie was made ever since the collapse in 1969-70 of such. Loong was the male lead for three of these four while Kwan left Cantonese opera and started to work for TV productions. One was on the rise since 1972 and best reflected in the charitable event raising fund for the tragedy happened in June 18, (618) 1972. The who's who in such event were always the best reflection of their status. Loong was there playing second fiddle to mentor Yam, in a bright yellow turtle neck pull over and navy blue skirt, and leading the 5 classmates all singing back up at the back. That picture is ICONIC both for Cantonese opera and the Hong Kong in 1970s. That's how Loong was introduced to the wider audience by modern technology.

People said that one should stop digging when in a hole. Not sure where it came from but sounds very wise to me. Meanwhile, I have lots more in my head to add be included in the zh:龙剑笙 you referred to.207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" Babies have been thrown out with the YET TO BE identified bathwater. Two weeks already and still no answer at all to questions raised as to the logic and the reasoning as justifications for such allegations and accusations.207.102.255.36（留言） 2016年6月8日 (三) 18:34 (UTC)

Break

207.102.255.36 Either you are not understanding me or your ignoring me... I'm not disagreeing with you about Loong's status as an Opera performer. I'm not disagreeing with you that she is legendary. This has nothing to do about Loong herself. This is about how to do an article on Wikipedia. We cannot go around saying "legendary" without a reference to back it up. We don't go around saying "legendary" in every paragraph. We are to be neutral and just give the facts. If a reference says she was "legendary" then make sure to use a reference to source that she is legendary. As I mentioned before on the John Wayne and Bruce Lee articles, both have "legendary" once in the article and it is referenced. This needs to happen in Loong's article.

Your English is not the best. That is fine, but there are parts of the article that doesn't make sense in English. I'm trying to edit some of those parts so they are more understandable.

Again, look at the articles Zhou Xinfang, Ouyang Yuqian and Kwan Hoi-san. This has nothing to do how they were as performers or how they compare to Loong. This has to do on how the articles are written. These are examples of opera performers who have good articles. Use these as a guide on how to write Loong's article.

Look at zh:龙剑笙. This is has more information on Loong that might be used on the English article. It also has references. Bgwhite (talk) 08:27, 21 May 2016 (UTC)207.102.255.36 (talk) 17:52, 21 May 2016 (UTC)207.102.255.36（留言） 2016年5月22日 (日) 21:09 (UTC)

Billytanghh 不断用假资料维持陈宝珠 的虚假形象

提案人已因WP:NOTHERE被封锁。--路西法人 2023年6月5日 (一) 05:52 (UTC)

下列讨论已经关闭，请勿修改。如有任何意见，请在合适的讨论页提出，而非再次编辑本讨论。

---

维基有一批陈宝珠及梅雪诗粉，不断在任剑辉，雏凤鸣剧团 甚至龙剑笙的维基内容搞破坏，加入他们认为正确的资料。其实是断章取义。当其他作者加入正确资料的时候，他们就一次过返回错误版面。请问维基有冇检视过所有资料的真确性？ 而不断让这批破坏者在维基扰乱， 错误引导公众视线呢？ 维基应该是一个让不同作者将资料搜证的平台。为什么不断维护一班破坏者将不实资讯 长年在为己出现！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月30日 (二) 03:14 (UTC)

@Tea0987：以陈宝珠为例，我希望你用以下的格式具体阐述你的指控。

“ Billytanghh多次使用【什么虚假的资料】声称陈宝珠【的什么虚假形象或虚假内容】。 ”

如果不是陈宝珠条目，你也可以选择梅雪诗、任剑辉、雏凤鸣剧团、龙剑笙条目来证明你的指控。

Billytanghh上一次编辑陈宝珠条目还是在三月份，我希望您能具体说明一下事由。--MilkyDefer 2023年5月30日 (二) 05:02 (UTC)

Tea0987及疑似傀儡Copyrighthaha？ 我想请问所有的维基人，在你们决定删除 或禁止某个作者的时候，是否永远都叫他做傀儡 叫他做机械人 ？如果在你们删除前没有清楚了解 人家留下的所有改动，审查所有资料是否真确 ，去作决定。你们不如将 整个维基 删除！ 你们的行动只是不断偏方提供错误资料的粉丝群 ！如果你要我再举例子说明，不如你详细睇一次我在更新版面内提供的所有资料，所有参考是否真确 ！合埋眼将所有修改都当造恶作剧，当做傀儡工作，你们的 行为实在幼稚 ！几多人利用这个平台做是非宣传自己偶像， 就可以达到将真真实资料永远隐藏的目的 。 我做任何改动时都会写出备注， 如果 原有作者不同意就提出反驳 理据及提出新证据新理由新文献 ，不是由你们决定去将某些作者禁止 及永远封禁 ！你们究竟边偏帮边一方已经很明显 ！！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月30日 (二) 15:10 (UTC)

请明确举证哪笔编辑将何种正确资料改为不实资料，资料正确性的依据（查证方式）。

此版本中您认为1964年而非1963年创立，但这与我当前找到的资料不符[2][3]。--YFdyh000（留言） 2023年5月30日 (二) 15:28 (UTC)

见：维基百科:免责声明：“维基百科不保证其内容正确无误”。

如果希望其他编者关注这个内容，最好说明情况，毕竟未必刚好有这方面的专家。过去某些破坏者如折毛还能混成专家。--Nostalgiacn（留言） 2023年5月30日 (二) 05:32 (UTC)

没有人是专家专家！都是从所有文献资料 第一手第二手报导综合出来的，最重要的问题是作者是否基于真实资料提供 有力的参考！ 还是采用偏颇， 断章取义的态度 。

有关龙剑笙， 任剑辉，雏凤鸣剧团，白雪仙，陈宝珠等的资料，可以说是由一班陈宝珠，梅雪诗的粉丝群，日日夜夜用不同帐号去堆砌出来！有常识的 学者读者都知道维基只是一个参考平台，要寻找真实资料，必须去图书馆大学图书馆，及几十年来有关的戏曲作者书籍里面寻找答案。

有关任剑辉，龙剑笙，雏凤鸣剧团的资料 其实主要来自 任剑辉传记，龙剑生细说当年， 细说任龙初 ，香港粤剧概论， 华侨日报 ，香港戏曲杂志例如戏曲之旅，戏曲品味 等等。 尤其是华侨日报 ，由 40年代至90年代 ，完全纪录了 龙剑笙，任剑辉，雏凤鸣剧团所有成员的成长及演出纪录 ，如果有关作者冇参考凭空想像 。同欺骗没有分别。

一个很清晰的事实就是，某批作者及多个帐号，他们一直不能够接受陈宝珠不是任剑辉真正学生的事实！ 我列举的参考只是少部分，其实有关文章书籍已经重复提及 几十年。 香港粤剧界全部都知道龙剑笙女士和任剑辉女士的亲密师徒关系， 没有人承认陈宝珠的地位！只不过是 一班粉丝甚至娱乐记者及 收钱 作家不能够接受龙剑笙女士过去几十年在粤剧艺术方面的巨大贡献， 包括能够承传任剑辉老师的艺术 ，带领的剧团成为班霸 获奖无数 ，及近年带领弘一辈 走上艺术的更高层次 。以上都是陈宝珠永远做不到的！因而立心不断搞破坏， 将事实倒转 ！将人家的资料删除！

他们是完全违反维基百科 对作者的要求，就是真实，公平，公正 及资料参考的广泛性！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月30日 (二) 15:29 (UTC)

我觉得吧，是学生那就是学生，现在你要搞一个“真正的学生”出来做切割，颇有一种“逐出师门”的感觉，就像是要区分“真正的苏格兰人”和“虚假的苏格兰人一样”。你的意思是不是认为维基百科陈宝珠条目内的内容过多，而龙剑笙条目的内容少了？--MilkyDefer 2023年5月31日 (三) 11:54 (UTC)

2017年文汇报报道陈宝珠已经向记者承认任剑辉不是他的老师 所以即他自己承认不是真正学生 --Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 13:02 (UTC)

文汇报的确如此报道。但存在冲突来源[4]有线电视-2020[5][6]等，按WP:POV讲各说法都要写明。--YFdyh000（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 13:33 (UTC)

http://paper.wenweipo.com/2017/01/15/EN1701150002.htm 2017.1.15 文汇报, 陈宝珠新书销量佳 未敢问仙姐意见, 陈宝珠承认"至于任姐(任剑辉)严格来说不是她的师父，因对方没正式教过她。" 因此, 有关入室弟子的说法已经不成立。 过去报导真正有跟任剑辉老师深究粤剧的士龙剑笙及朱剑丹两位, 陈宝珠自己承认武学艺 就不是真正学生已经好明显.--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 13:39 (UTC)

你引述的电视访问已经是2013年 而陈宝珠在内里只是提及听任剑辉的 录影带 没有提到他跟任剑辉直接学习及后2017年他是直接讲出从来没有跟任剑辉学习 .--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 13:42 (UTC)

没有直接学习，但有拜师收徒，讲明后者注明前者就行，师徒关系是重要信息且受传媒报道及民众观念的一定认可，是否学习则是细节。感谢指正年份疏失。--YFdyh000（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 13:55 (UTC)

另一位名伶林锦堂曾经在1980年在广州向 罗品超先生跪地斟茶拜师亦都在报纸上有报道但其后林锦堂 因为真的没有跟罗品超先生学习过所以他所有报道都没有提及罗品超是他的师父而他真正师父是林家声 --Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 13:58 (UTC)

https://m.facebook.com/am730hk/videos/%E9%99%B3%E5%AF%B6%E7%8F%A0%E6%A2%85%E9%9B%AA%E8%A9%A9-%E4%B8%80%E5%8F%B0%E5%A5%BD%E6%88%B2/1117502761622143/?locale=zh_HK

这个访问里面陈宝珠又再次承认冇跟任剑辉学过，冇学过冇返学，就不是学生，更加不是什么入室弟子! 拜师仪式只是一个入学礼，冇返学就不是弟子!

更正，有关林锦堂拜罗品超为师的新闻，刊载于广东粤剧史系列内，年份是1981年。 林锦堂冇跟罗品超学过 ，不会承认自己是罗老师学生 ，报章有报导又如何 ？--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 15:05 (UTC)

https://youtu.be/Z24G4WWIr_o 陈宝珠再次承认没有跟任剑辉学习过，只是看龙剑笙梅雪诗录影带去演出。所以有报名冇毕业，根本不是学生！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 14:46 (UTC)

• 请注意提报人Tea0987及疑似傀儡Copyrighthaha多年以来只以同一倾向编辑任剑辉以及相关粤剧条目，完全没有其他编辑贡献，为典型的SPA及NOTHERE-某人✉ 2023年5月30日 (二) 07:06 (UTC)

  你本人就是陈宝珠梅雪诗粉丝，傀儡即是木头公仔机械人！ 傀儡会去自己找资料 ？会用真实证据修改错误？一班粉丝自己已经有预设的宣传文稿，年年月月将同一个文搞用不同形式在各大平台包括维基百科，youtube Facebook， 微博里面作长年宣传！将人家抹黑，将自己偶像抬高，这是什么做人品德 ！阅读维基百科都是有识之士，不会单凭你们 的诈骗文章相信就是事实！

  我强烈呼吁维基所有管理人，作者，睇清楚这班 粉丝的真面目！ 将维基百科还原为一个干净，归于事实的平台！不要再被这班粉丝欺骗 ！亦欢迎所有管理人作者亲身到图书馆查阅所有资料，包括你们眼中以为傀儡所提供的资料，全部真实无误 ， 是经过 长时间考证搜习及总结 ！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月30日 (二) 15:38 (UTC)

维基有一批陈宝珠及梅雪诗粉，不断在任剑辉，雏凤鸣剧团 甚至龙剑笙的维基内容搞破坏，加入他们认为正确的资料。，好歹给出资讯我们才能核对吧。 --窝法乙烷 儿法梦碎 2023年5月31日 (三) 14:01 (UTC)

请你翻查 有关条目内的历史有多位作者不断维护陈宝珠再搓凤鸣剧团的位置, 改完又改, 陈宝珠完成三个折子戏之后1965年已经离团，对剧团没有贡献！但有关粉丝就将他的名字放到最放在第一位。 而且描述到不是因为陈宝珠退出，龙剑笙就不可以做正印文武生。 实际上，已经有作者加入资料，一九六五年之后任剑辉老师已经 尽心尽力培养龙剑笙，,龙剑笙的1964 的表现比前辈称为缩水任剑辉， 即表示对他非常欣赏!

另外有关梅雪诗，是雏凤鸣剧团其中亦是服务比较长的花旦。但是，他的粉丝就刻意用一个表格将梅雪诗的同学包括谢雪心、 吕雪欣、 方雪羽的名字都删除，又将另一位同学江雪鹭的是非新闻放大，这是什么居心呢 ？

最后想提提任剑辉 的条目，因为有作者加入 更加多参考文件，证实龙剑笙就是任剑辉女士的嫡传弟子及接班人， 却就被禁止，被强行返回原本错误百出的版面去 。 主要是因为有人不断争拗陈宝珠是任剑辉的入室弟子！

但事实上 2017年陈宝珠已经承认任剑辉 不是他的老师，因为他根本冇学习过。至于入室弟子的报导，有报名返学没有毕业就不是学生！例如名伶林锦堂1981年在广州向罗品超先生拜师，跪地斟茶亦有报章报道。但是最后林锦堂没有跟罗品超学习，反而拜林家声先生做老师。所以，林锦堂是林家声的弟子，他从不说自己是罗品超弟子， 冇学过就系冇学过。( 有关剪报以刊载于广东粤剧史系列内。)--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 14:33 (UTC)

http://paper.wenweipo.com/2017/01/15/EN1701150002.htm 2017.1.15 文汇报, 陈宝珠新书销量佳 未敢问仙姐意见, 陈宝珠承认"至于任姐(任剑辉)严格来说不是她的师父，因对方没正式教过她。" 因此, 有关入室弟子的说法已经不成立。--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 14:37 (UTC)

https://youtu.be/Z24G4WWIr_o 陈宝珠再次承认没有跟任剑辉学习过，只是看龙剑笙梅雪诗录影带去演出。所以有报名冇毕业，根本不是学生！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 14:43 (UTC)

https://m.facebook.com/am730hk/videos/%E9%99%B3%E5%AF%B6%E7%8F%A0%E6%A2%85%E9%9B%AA%E8%A9%A9-%E4%B8%80%E5%8F%B0%E5%A5%BD%E6%88%B2/1117502761622143/?locale=zh_HK

这个访问里面陈宝珠又再次承认冇跟任剑辉学过，冇学过冇返学，就不是学生，更加不是什么入室弟子! 拜师仪式只是一个入学礼，冇返学就不是弟子!--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 14:59 (UTC)

根据1986年6月5日出版的<细说任龙雏>，内容讲述任剑辉的奋斗史，仙凤鸣剧团只是任剑辉参与剧剧团其中之一。但是在任剑辉的条目内， 陈宝珠及梅雪诗的粉丝不断强调仙凤鸣剧团的公演内容。这些内容已经在仙凤鸣剧团的条目里详述，再在任剑辉的条目里有详述一次。 刻意贬低了任剑辉女士在其他剧团的贡献， 显然不是公平的做法！ 除了白雪仙之外，任剑辉和唐涤生、芳艳芬、吴君丽 、陈艳僼等都合作无间， 为什么要特别强调白雪仙及他的仙凤鸣剧团呢? 白雪仙及仙凤鸣剧团的条目内不断不断重复任剑辉的名字，但相反 任剑辉本身是一位独立大老倌。他不需要依附任何一个人，或者任何一个剧团，他的故事不只如此!

另外他们亦都积极去删除有关龙剑笙女士是任剑辉女士嫡传弟子的所有参考纪录及文字， 因为他一定要突出陈宝珠就是任剑辉入室弟子 的名目！

但我上述已经列举多个报道，及陈宝珠亲口承认的事实。这个冲突， 是陈宝珠梅雪诗粉丝一直想欺骗大众 ！告诉大众陈宝珠就是正式弟子，龙剑笙不是。 真正事实是相反！陈宝珠的所谓入室弟子是假的！自己承认我冇学过！

龙剑笙才是任剑辉真正入室及嫡传弟子- 龙剑笙在访问中亲口讲过和任老师同食同住学艺， 而他是任剑辉的承继人早已被粤剧人所认同， 包括白雪仙，李香琴，谭倩红及多位戏曲书籍赞写人。她的成就已在多个书刊内记载。

若要提供更多参考，随时可以 ！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 16:28 (UTC)

恳请各位维基人细心再检查一次 参考资料的真实性，如果发觉某些作者系有私人目的，及意图去贬低某些人抬高某些人就要立即将他们永远封禁。因为这班人已经用了多个帐号，长年制造事端， 存放假资料 。 并应该将资料真确的版本 回复。--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 16:35 (UTC)

陈宝珠的条目内长年强调他是任剑辉的入室弟子， 因为他已经承认从来冇学过，拜师仪式不等于毕业！所以 所谓入室弟子的称呼应该被取消 ！被永远取消！ 他一九六五年十一月已经离开雏凤鸣剧团，对剧团完全冇贡献 。 现时雏凤鸣剧团已经是注册公司， 龙剑笙女士才是公司董事 ， 与陈宝珠完全冇关系！ 陈宝珠条目再提及 他在雏凤鸣剧团有什么影响成就都是欺骗读者！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 16:42 (UTC)

“拜师仪式不等于毕业！所以 所谓入室弟子的称呼应该被取消 ！被永远取消！”掺杂了严重的个人情感，旁人无权决定这个。条目只需要一板一眼的记述传媒文献说过什么，请勿原创研究。--YFdyh000（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 17:18 (UTC)

资料不正确就应该被取消，没有什么私人情感问题 。

全部以事论事 ！ 林锦堂的条目内亦清楚说明他是林家声的弟子，只字不提罗品超。虽然他已经拜过师而且拜师仪式畀陈宝珠更多隆重。 恳请公平处理所有资料项目的真确性 。--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 17:40 (UTC)

如果我报读了香港科技大学的硕士课程，但上了一个月就去外地读书。 我还是科技大学的学生吗？我可以自称做科技大学的入室学子吗 ？ 我通知了所有亲友我会读科技大学又如何 ？--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 17:49 (UTC)

除非退学或者学校开除学籍，不然这种状态下的确是科技大学的学生。 --窝法乙烷 儿法梦碎 2023年5月31日 (三) 18:08 (UTC)

陈宝珠1965年11月已经自动退出雏凤鸣剧团，直至任剑辉1989离世。维基内容应该终于当事人的表白，他已经三次向传媒表示过没有跟任剑辉学习， 承认任剑辉不是他的老师 。 再文汇报的访问内他只承认粉菊花是他的正式师傅 ，这是铁一般的事实 !--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 19:16 (UTC)

自录取报道有学籍就是，没读完是肄业，没合格是结业，仅仅不能称作毕业生。条目中，曾被录取的事实不能因未上课或被开除而抹去。包括如相声演员师承关系，传授技艺非必需，名分是重点。--YFdyh000（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 18:22 (UTC)

陈宝珠1965年11月已经自动退出雏凤鸣剧团，直至任剑辉1989离世。维基内容应该终于当事人的表白，他已经三次向传媒表示过没有跟任剑辉学习， 承认任剑辉不是他的老师 。 在文汇报的访问内，他只承认粉菊花是他的师傅 ，这是铁一般的事实 ! --Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 19:19 (UTC)

以你的论述，林锦堂曾经向罗品超拜师， 甚至可能在艺术上有交流。但在戏曲的师徒制内 ，他明白没有学就是没有学， 从来冇提他是罗品超学生，更加冇可能说自己是入室弟子， 这是忠于自己的表现， 不需外人去评断， 当时人自己最清楚！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 20:18 (UTC)

另外想补充有关入室弟子的定义：https://baike.baidu.hk/item/%E5%85%A5%E5%AE%A4%E5%BC%9F%E5%AD%90/11058107 入室弟子是指学生跟老师同食同住及学艺，而且入室就是有嫡系的意思，即得老师真传。 真正和任剑辉老师同食堂住及学艺是龙剑笙。https://www.mingpaocanada.com/van/htm/News/20141009/HK-mba1_r.htm

“有段日子住在师父家中，任姐起床后，我俩就会聊天，她坐在梳化上，我就依偎在任姐膝伴，和她闲话家常。任姐去世后，我经常梦中见到她，梦中的任姐就像生时一样亲切。”阿刨每念恩师，至今仍难仰悲恸。

陈宝珠不符合以上入室弟子的定义， 加上自己否定 是任剑辉的学生 ，真实情况已经好清楚 。

https://www.mingpaocanada.com/van/htm/News/20141009/HK-mba1_r.htm--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 20:35 (UTC)

非常反对"传授技艺非必需，名分是重点。" 这个说法! 如此说 ，人人都可以做挂名学生，并且可以因为某位名师，某间名校， 以学生衔头自居去招摇撞骗，于道德上是不能接受。 每个人都要坦白面对自己，坦白面对公众，不是用美丽的衔头包装！否则， 这叫自欺世盗名！--Tea0987（留言） 2023年5月31日 (三) 22:39 (UTC)

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